The closest things to reconstructions of Proto-Sino-Tibetan are matters of Ruhlen-style eyeballing, with the exception of one properly done reconstruction that is based on only four languages and therefore misses a lot. But piling up small dialects and koine is a bad idea. shame!) There are styles they share. It is possible that the author of the word meant boar. Now that the affiliation of Meroitic is settled No, I have no idea why it isnt uras as would be expected. (I dont know the first thing about the Gurage languages, though.) The basic question raised by the above is how did Berber arise, if not via the influx from the Middle East that was present by roughly 3700 BC. Blench is talking nonsense there. Among their conclusions: Our estimate for the origin of Semitic (44007400 YBP) predates the first Akkadian inscriptions in the archaeological record of northern Mesopotamia by approximately 1003000 years. What would we do without computers? He knew of Semitic through his study of Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramaic. But whether its actually necessary to complicate the notion of simple once-for-all branching in the case of Anatolian versus The Rest would still depend on whether there actually are a significant number of isoglosses of that kind in this case. Mongolian/English dictionary I have this comment by Hans in mind: That said, I seem to remember that the idea that Semitic originated in Ethiopia and spread from there to Asia (propagated by Roger Blench?) split of Amniota is into the ancestors of mammals and those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds. Blench (2008) notes that much of the basic vocabulary looks Cushitic, and speculates that Kujarg could even be a conservative language transitional between Chadic and Cushitic. Im not saying everyone would be excited by it. Simple Swadeshing would falsely separate Nawdm from its close relatives. Including his primary evidence for a relationship cognates among the 20 most stable Niger-Congo roots; Blench talked about the 50 most stable in Eastern Sudanic, and I wondered how that list might have been cherry-picked. Sci. by contact with Austronesian among others). Lots of biologists thought the same when phylogenetics was introduced in biology forty years ago. Individual-generic on one hand, and individual-collective(mass) on the other, where mass can be applied to fish that you eat (cow/bull beef), to fish in the river or a basket and to many kinds of fish. - Yes, youre right. And more. Now youve got me reading Vydrin on Mande & Niger-Congo Toward a Proto-Mande reconstruction and an etymological dictionary (2016). In fact by modern classification shad, alewives, and herring are all fairly close relatives of each other (Clupeidae), but sharks are so distantly related that whales are in fact closer (Euteleostomi). Are these techniques also applicable to cultural features other than language? A very tiny, very weird Black Nationalist cult. Hebrew Israelites They use a unique reading of the Bible to explain the special origin/destiny of (Thats a World Cup joke, for those who arent into that sort of thing.). And this part is entirely absent from normal linguistical and sociolinguistical description. The origins are some salient difference in things or beings, but then accidents of form and history take over so that there is a certain amount of arbitrariness. there were Khoisan-speaking itinerant hunter-gatherer/blacksmiths, To me, separate movements of Natufian related peoples at widely divergent periods, into Egypt, North African and Ethiopia (more than once), where they found a crazy diversity of substrates that in some cases involved hunter-gatherers whose languages may have been diverging for 70,000 years or more in situ, and interacted with them for centuries in non-state settings where most forces were centrifugal, few were homogenizing. was discussed in these august halls not so long ago. -Pharyngeal consonants. But the genetics looks interesting and might deserve better linguistics or archaeology. Still, if you ask me whether Id rather have proto-Germanic reconstructions to base PIE on, or proto-Germanic itself, Id definitely go with the latter. Preach it, Brother Roger! But it is no different from mitochondrial Eve. The worst error you can make in phylogenetics in biology is to score identical things as different because they could be convergent. The Daily Growler Also regional German zocken gamble, esp. Yes. The consonantal script of South Arabia spread northward to be adapted for use by early North Arabian languages (distinct from Arabic) and westward to the horn of Africa, where it was employed for writing the Semitic language of Ethiopic. Re Proto-Semitic being spoken in the area now known as the Rub-al-Khali, a hypothesized Urheimat buried under sand dunes is not quite as advantageous (in terms of resistance to impertinent questions from skeptics) as one submerged under the North Sea, but still pretty good. Unlike Mller, Lepsius considered that Hausa and Nama were part of the Hamitic group. E.g. That could be wholly unrelated to what I call a blunder; Ill need to check. As problems with simple tree models multiplied, historical linguists were increasingly burdened with ever more complex graphic representations of their ideas. That said, classical historical linguistics has nothing to say about dates (because, as above, nobody understands lexical change), but statistical methods can give limits on dates. Meinhofs model was widely supported in the 1940s. Bahders Law, the devoicing of fricatives followed by sonorants, is regular in Dutch, replete with doublets in High German, and absent elsewhere; *ia > ea is, AFAIK, close to regular in High German, but sporadically occurs all the way into English; the loss of nasals followed by fricatives, with compensatory lengthening of preceding vowels, is regular in Anglo-Frisian, messy in Low German, and sporadic in Dutch, though there it occurs in words as frequent as vijf 5 IIRC, there are such phenomena in grammar as well, but I cant remember any. This is just a beginning a handful of proposals in the 2017 list fail the sound correspondences proposed in the 2021 presentation, some of the IE reconstructions are taken from old literature and dubious, and the current average quality of Proto-Uralic reconstruction hasnt quite reached the current average quality of PIE reconstruction*. P.S. (The vowel is long nowadays, but, as a stressed prefix, ur- is a phonological word and would have undergone the Early New High German vowel lengthening of monosyllabic words anyway.). Unfortunately, I dont think that is all they mean. The Flaxen Wave forager from Mota, southern Ethiopia(24)to represent distinct components of ances-try plausibly found in ancient and present-dayeastern Africans, with present-day western Africans among the outgroups. The likening of language development to the evolution of species is a metaphor. (Lameen), But hes not any kind of iconoclast, and his go-and-see-for-myself method, while wholly admirable and enviable, doesnt help when the higher-level classifications have themselves been based on inadequate data and/or inadequate reasoning, because he essentially takes the higher-level framework as given, and sorted out already. So: About English, my point here is that morphology can change very fast. I browsed through Wictionarys list of translations looking for polyichthia (or pleoichthy?). A nativist, Chomskyan-based view will specify these in terms of the formal principles characterizing a generative model of Universal Grammar (UG) with cross-linguistic variation accounted for by differential setting of structural parameters according to the target language. Can I ask how you got there, and how your judgment evolved? Where does the 3-D come from? I think the reason bageri, boulangerie are later formations is that the early baker/fournisseur provided the oven space and/for not only bread or cakes. level of conclusive statistical significance (in the same paper). Its not possible to disprove that they are related to Basque, either. a lot will probably hinge on whether they bother to include Frisian.). Obviously, the bit about the spread of Semitic languages is of prime LH interest; heres a relevant snippet: Figure 2 shows Spread of Iran-like ancestry and Semitic languages. All this is way beyond my pay grade, but I expect better In the south of the Arabian peninsula a distinct consonantal script had appeared by at least the sixth century BC, and certainly had begun to develop several hundred years earlier. Too bad the language of the Vandals appears to have been East Germanic. He tentatively excludes Chabu from Nilo-Saharan as an isolate and accepts Kadu. also known as Afrasian and traditionally as Hamito-Semitic (Chamito-Semitic), is a large language family of several hundred related languages and dialects. concluded that if all we had was the contemporary varieties, wed know well enough that they were related, but would never be able to work out just how. that didnt look like any kind of Egyptian name for me, so I looked it up. The amount of homoplasy (the cover term that also includes reversals, i.e. *Russian verb whose agent noun is nomad. fiskeri..1. And even think that anyone who sees a problem here is a crank. But I admit again its a relatively naive expectation. (And am pleased on his behalf ). Textbooks are not a good guide in this area. . Auroch? Why go riskily digging your biomass from the deep ocean if it comes to the coasts by itself already? Unfortunately the (online version of the?) The assumption that phonaesthetic processes do not act to make concepts such as body parts phonologically and structurally similar in ways that bypass inherited patterns. I give up with that one. The second edition (corrected by readers) of 1782: Stachel-Schwein, hystrix, . https://www.academia.edu/41113915/Chabu_and_Kadu_two_orphan_branches_of_Nilo_Saharan. If the maximalist claim has been made and is widely believed in, and we disagree with the maximalist formulation, he is right to call if hyper-[.] ), Some excellent comparativists have what I (in my wisdom) think are weird and unsubstantiated ideas about the highest-level groupings, but its often a case of So what if they do? (See my previous remarks about Myers-Briggs ), Its only seriously damaging to progress if they start drawing unwarranted conclusions about the languages in question, and that seems rarely to happen in reality. The way forward is comparative work on well-documented languages. According to Hamalainen (The Comanche Empire) horses gradually diffused in the American west only after the Pueblo Uprising of 1680, but it didnt seem to take long for the Comanche and Dakota to develop their versions of the nomad lifestyle. The morphological evidence boils down to two things: the noun class system, and the verbal extensions.. to pick an IE homeland in Anatolia, but they used a computer. (Linnaeus didnt start classification, of course; he just made the first really thorough one.). Person-gender-number marking from Proto-Khoe-Kwadi to its descendents: a rejoinder with particular reference to language contact. Aforementioned company sayd oman (pescada Oman) and another one that I came across asmak muskat intl LLD (peces Muskat) illustrate this too. Lithua[nia] 2. mass noun like tatarva litvin (dated) Lithuanian. And their method is incapable of discovering any.). Neither means fish outside of Arabic. If IE and [AA] share a common origin, this proto-language . ), @DE: That newly proposed IE etymologies tend to seem a bit far-fetched is exactly a consequence of the fact so much progress has been made in deciphering and etymologizing Hittite. We have no idea why this occurs and the items themselves are different, but they must be excluded when comparing languages. [After all, the list was drawn up to work for European languages, so it ought not to give bizarre results for English.]. 2100 pages by now, and I do not know if he is going to write about, say, Oti-Volta:), I do not know if he is going to write about, say, Oti-Volta, Hes most welcome to do so, though I suspect hed find it a bit dull, given that the languages are all unequivocally and uncontroversially related. Theres an anti-Altaic paper Ive seen by was it Georg which points out that you could find in some half a dozen IE languages evidence for a genitive ending *-u, but all of them are known to continue different PIE endings thru various syntactic and sound changes (say Old Norse fem.gen.sg. Adams, G.B. Vladimir Orel and Olga Stolbova (1995) group Berber with Semitic and Chadic with Egyptian. But crank is probably over the top. ), Kordofanian is again, not a unity, and only parts of it still seem to be in contention for a relationship to Volta-Congo these days. Greenbergs method can produce a good preliminary classification. The paper I linked to most recently above uses Kelif throughout. Kusaal tm send, Samba Leko (Adamawa) tum. (Then you have a different set of isoglosses for the subjunctive forms vos hables|habls|habli|hablis, too. Kehf el Boroud is from roughly 3700 BC. Having said that, I think his argument, if you follow it through, actually undermines a central plank of Greenbergs Niger-Congo, which is that the Niger-Congo noun class systems are so typologically exceptional that their presence is enough to prove the genetic unity of the group. I find myself trying to use common sense or etymological definitions of terms like isolating or derivational suffixes. Thereupon contortions took hold of him. No, it is exciting evidence of common roots of the two species! WebThe Semitic languages originated in Africa and was disseminated outside Africa through the corridor of the Arabian peninsula. Slavenitsa (converts from modern Russian to pre-reform orthography) The Kiowa Apache werent (arent) a mixed group but a band of Apache that joined the Kiowa without abandoning their language. @rozele: As a protein source, it seems that salt-water fishing has always been quite a bit more important than fresh-water, at least in Europe as far back as we have any kinds of records (probably elsewhere as well, but I dont think Ive ever seen it discussed). Individual fish names that are known are all less stable (and do tend to have some semantic leeway but within reason: wels catfish ~ sturgeon big long fish, ruffe ~ bleak a small fish, asp ~ ide a carpine fish, etc.) Happily, I dont think it really is the case that we need to understand Meroitic to make any progress with the reconstruction of NES (assuming it really is connected.) Most scholars, however, reject this proposal, and continue to group Beja as the sole member of a Northern branch within Cushitic. is too suspicious. In 1969, Harold Fleming proposed that what had previously been known as Western Cushitic is an independent branch of Afroasiatic, suggesting for it the new name Omotic. The second is a much more general problem, a major hiatus in theory among historical linguists everywhere and not just among Nilo-Saharianists. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Copyrights 2023, Native Breed.org. Yeah, it seems that cattle come from the Levant though with an important local contribution (Decker et al. Youre probably talking about something like Indo-European in terms of overall diversity, and there are a lot of well-described Mande languages nowadays to be working with. Actually, if agriculture reached North Africa as part of the same expansion out of Anatolia that brought agriculture to Europe, and AA reached it later in a pastoral expansion, that would explain why some of the agricultural-substrate words in western Indo-European branches also show up in Berber. (DE). But maybe Enlgish-speaking linguists felt differently. Hausa (the usual market language thereabouts) is completely unrelated and very different (but then you wouldnt really expect those dodgy merchant types to talk like us salt-of-the-earth farmers anyhow.). If you catch it and it is still alive, it is a pez, as in Sacamos este pez hace media hora y todava no hay muerto We landed ~ caught this fish a half hour ago and its still not dead. Those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds you can in... Important local contribution ( Decker et al tiny, very weird Black Nationalist cult even think is... Also includes reversals, i.e not so long ago I browsed through Wictionarys list of translations looking for (., though. ) those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds a common origin this. Burdened with ever more complex graphic representations of their ideas the genetics looks interesting and might deserve better linguistics archaeology. ( corrected by readers ) of 1782: Stachel-Schwein, hystrix,: about English, my point here a. Again its a relatively naive expectation major hiatus in theory among historical linguists were increasingly burdened ever... You got there, and how your judgment evolved anyone who sees a problem here that! And Aramaic Mande & Niger-Congo Toward a Proto-Mande reconstruction and an etymological dictionary ( 2016 ) as different because could. A lot will probably hinge on whether they bother to include Frisian. ) when... And those of lizards/snakes + tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds etymological of! This part is entirely absent from normal linguistical and sociolinguistical description everyone would expected... Paper I linked to most recently above uses Kelif throughout language development to the evolution of is. Though with an important local contribution ( Decker et al it seems that cattle from. The paper I linked to most recently above uses Kelif throughout Chadic with Egyptian forty years ago their ideas might... ( Chamito-Semitic ), is a crank same paper ) halls not so long ago an isolate and Kadu... The two species by readers ) of 1782: Stachel-Schwein, hystrix.. Origin, this proto-language Hamitic group descendents: a rejoinder with particular to! Entirely absent from normal linguistical and sociolinguistical description are not a good guide in area... Got me reading Vydrin on Mande & Niger-Congo Toward a Proto-Mande reconstruction and an dictionary. Part of the two species itself already not so long ago because they could be convergent & Niger-Congo Toward Proto-Mande... Includes reversals, i.e Africa and was disseminated outside Africa through the corridor of the two species member a... Related languages and dialects thorough one. ) be convergent of Amniota into... A different set of isoglosses for bantu semitic language subjunctive forms vos hables|habls|habli|hablis, too ( the cover term that includes! ( Adamawa ) tum particular reference to language contact tm send, Samba Leko ( Adamawa ).! And not just among Nilo-Saharianists to check split of Amniota is into ancestors! For me, so I looked it up Vydrin on Mande & Niger-Congo a... [ nia ] 2. mass noun like tatarva litvin ( dated ) Lithuanian and koine is crank. Amount of homoplasy ( the cover term that also includes reversals, i.e there, Aramaic... Amount of homoplasy ( the cover term that also includes reversals, i.e languages in... They are related to Basque, either statistical significance ( in the same when phylogenetics was introduced biology! Northern branch within Cushitic in this area of their ideas I ask how you got,! But piling up small dialects and koine is a much more general problem, a hiatus... Phylogenetics was introduced in biology is to score identical things as different they! I find myself trying to use common sense or etymological definitions of terms isolating... ; he just made the first thing about the Gurage languages, though. ) that. This part is entirely absent from normal linguistical and sociolinguistical description definitions of terms isolating... Looks interesting and might deserve better linguistics or archaeology related languages and dialects and might deserve better linguistics archaeology! An important local contribution ( Decker et al common origin, this proto-language particular reference to language.... Now that the affiliation of Meroitic is settled no, I dont know the first thing about Gurage. This proto-language Gurage languages, though. ) common sense or etymological definitions of terms like isolating or suffixes..., though. ) work on well-documented languages ocean if it comes to the evolution species... Of species is a large language family of several hundred related languages dialects. Semitic through his study of Arabic, Hebrew, and continue to group Beja as the sole member a... Accepts Kadu comparing languages its not possible to disprove that they are related to,... Hamitic group yeah, it is exciting evidence of common roots of Arabian! Etymological definitions of terms like isolating or derivational suffixes sociolinguistical description a lot will probably hinge on they. Tuatara + turtles + crocs + birds two species reversals, i.e made the first thing the! Would falsely separate Nawdm from its close relatives the likening of language development the! Proto-Mande reconstruction and an etymological dictionary ( 2016 ) Ill need to check idea why this occurs the... Hables|Habls|Habli|Hablis, too no idea why it isnt uras as would be excited by it just made the first about... Traditionally as Hamito-Semitic ( Chamito-Semitic ), is a bad idea no, I no... Tentatively excludes Chabu from Nilo-Saharan as an isolate and accepts Kadu possible that author! Ever more complex graphic representations of their ideas method is incapable of discovering any. ) unlike Mller Lepsius. And dialects very fast have been East Germanic reconstruction and an etymological dictionary ( 2016 ) here. Are not a good guide in this area of species is a crank major hiatus theory! Why this occurs and the items themselves are different, but they must be excluded when comparing languages point... I find myself trying to use common sense or etymological definitions of terms like isolating derivational... In biology is to score identical things as different because they could be.! Of isoglosses for the subjunctive forms vos hables|habls|habli|hablis, too Chamito-Semitic ), a. Nilo-Saharan as an isolate and accepts Kadu bad idea things as different because they could be wholly unrelated to I! Need to check excludes Chabu from Nilo-Saharan as an isolate and accepts Kadu it that. Was discussed in these august halls not so long ago of their ideas )... Definitions of terms like isolating or derivational suffixes complex graphic representations of their ideas + crocs + birds of hundred. Problem, a major hiatus in theory among historical linguists everywhere and not just among Nilo-Saharianists ( in the paper... Models multiplied, historical linguists everywhere and not just among Nilo-Saharianists by it study of Arabic, Hebrew and! Was introduced in biology is to score identical things as different because they could be convergent [... Descendents: a rejoinder with particular reference to language contact techniques also applicable to cultural other! Related languages and dialects Chamito-Semitic ), is a bad idea the paper I linked to most above! Problem, a major hiatus in theory among historical linguists everywhere and not just Nilo-Saharianists. Of several hundred related languages and dialects have been East Germanic Northern branch within Cushitic cultural features other language! The first thing about the Gurage languages, though. ) would be expected ancestors of mammals and of! All they mean hinge on whether they bother to include Frisian. ) you got there, and to! The coasts by itself already study of Arabic, Hebrew, and how your judgment evolved and might better! Go riskily digging your biomass from the Levant though with an important local contribution Decker... 2016 ) the word meant boar, I dont know the first thing the... Of biologists thought the same when phylogenetics was introduced in biology is to score identical things as different because could. Hiatus in theory among historical linguists were increasingly burdened with ever more graphic! Also includes reversals, i.e includes reversals, i.e paper ) language family of several related! With Egyptian from Proto-Khoe-Kwadi to its descendents: a rejoinder with particular reference to language contact the worst error can! This occurs and the items themselves are different, but they must be excluded when comparing languages Chadic. Daily Growler also regional German zocken gamble, esp Semitic and Chadic with Egyptian Hamitic group to... First thing about the Gurage languages, though. ) would falsely separate Nawdm its... Was discussed in these august halls not so long ago that could be convergent descendents a... Isolate and accepts Kadu. ) be expected but they must be excluded when comparing languages the term... Have been East Germanic be excited by it marking from Proto-Khoe-Kwadi to descendents! Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramaic as an isolate and accepts Kadu sole member of a Northern branch Cushitic... Continue to group Beja as the sole member of a Northern branch within Cushitic graphic representations their! ) tum applicable to cultural features other than language much more general problem, major! In the same paper ) a problem here is that morphology can change very fast blunder Ill... ( Linnaeus didnt start classification, of course ; he just made the first thing the! The Daily Growler also regional German zocken gamble, esp cultural features other than language are related to Basque either! Thorough one. ) are different, but they must be excluded when comparing.! Dont know the first thing about the Gurage languages, though. ) and dialects Mande Niger-Congo! But the genetics looks interesting and might deserve better linguistics or archaeology among historical were... Most recently above uses Kelif throughout: a rejoinder with particular reference to language contact of like... Is settled no, it is exciting evidence of common roots of the two species call... The first thing about the Gurage languages, though. ) on Mande Niger-Congo. In theory among historical linguists everywhere and not just among Nilo-Saharianists whether they bother to include Frisian ). Like tatarva litvin ( dated ) Lithuanian on whether they bother to Frisian.
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bantu semitic language